Competitive product analysis report: Douyu VS Huya

Competitive product analysis report: Douyu VS Huya

Live streaming is a carnival for a group of lonely people. Although each user is in a different place and does different jobs, the live streaming platform can bring everyone together. Let everyone participate in a performance at the same time. The amazing traffic and generous returns of live broadcast have led to the emergence of corresponding products one after another. This article will introduce you to two of the well-known ones.

As one of the hottest and most participated video formats at the moment, live streaming reflects a certain social reality. The low threshold of watching with just a computer and an internet cable, and the behavior of wealthy people who easily give thousands or millions of dollars in rewards, make the live broadcast magical, both virtual and real. The popularity of live streaming celebrities is almost as high as that of stars, and their income is also very good.

All manufacturers have attached great importance to this new video format that has emerged in recent years. The signing fees and attention received by first-line anchors are no less than those of athletes.

In recent years, the de-demonization of video games has gradually rectified their reputation, and live streaming plus video games has created wave after wave of viewing crazes. The impact of live streaming on video games has become too great to ignore. It is no exaggeration to say that the sales of many electronic game products are driven by live streaming. For example, the popularity of PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds is largely due to the promotional effect of a large number of live broadcasts.

This also makes game designers start to consider an issue, that is, the performance effect of their own game live broadcasts. This point was not considered at all in previous game design, which shows the great impact of live streaming on games.

Where there are people, there is a world of its own, and live streaming is no exception. Various problems exposed in live streaming often come into people's attention. For example, a certain anchor uses cheats or plays for others, a certain room broadcasts the creation of a baby, etc. There are many examples of anchors being banned from all platforms just after they became popular and before they could reap the benefits, which is really regrettable.

This article will take you to understand this live broadcast product that is both real and illusory, where capital and entertainment coexist.

1. Purpose of analysis

Comparing products is one of the best ways to identify the quality of a product. Of course, exploring its background through search is also a good method. Related article: "Search function: a great entry point for insight into products."

Unless a product is very good or very bad, it is difficult for users to evaluate it when they only use it. At this time, the best way to know the quality of the application is to use one of its competitors. Then, the level of the product can be clearly known through product design, resource quantity, consumption level and other aspects.

This article will introduce you to Douyu and Huya , two large-scale game live streaming software, and provide reference opinions while also enhancing your sensitivity to the products.

2. Choose Competitive Products

1. Similar product content

We take a look at the entire product layout through classification and find that the two are very similar in layout.

Picture 1 is Huya Live , and the other three pictures are Douyu Live.

It can be found that the categories of Huya Live are popular, online game competition, stand-alone hot games, entertainment world , etc. The recommended content includes League of Legends , PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds, Honor of Kings , etc. The top three Douyu Live programs are exactly the same as Huya Live programs, all of which are online games, stand-alone games, and entertainment. In the recommended categories, the top three are PUBG Mobile, Army Attack, and PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds, which do not completely overlap with the top three of Huya Live.

Through the above analysis, we can find that the contents of the two are almost the same, but they are different in every precise point, which shows that the two are platforms with similar content, but due to the differences in anchors and audiences, the hot spots are not the same. 5VS5 Dota-like games are more popular on Huya, while battle royale-type games are more popular on Douyu.

2. Similar target users

This can actually be deduced from the previous point. When the contents of two software are similar, their target users are often similar. Of course, there are exceptions, such as one of the software is restricted to registration.

For example, an invitation code is required, and there are also thresholds such as qualification certification and fees. For example, using the software requires at least a doctoral degree or a certain annual fee. This situation may result in two software with similar content having completely different user groups, but obviously Douyu and Huya, as entertainment products, will not have these differences.

It can also be learned through third-party platforms that the users of the two are very similar, and the main group is younger males.

3. Similar scale

Products of different sizes will have significant differences in operations and communication strategies. One of the prerequisites for comparing two products together is that the difference in size between the two products cannot be too large.

For example, it is inappropriate to compare a supermarket’s own website with JD Supermarket. The difference in capital and size between the two leads to completely different business models.

Betta

Tiger Teeth

Data source : iResearch Index

The above picture shows the device occupancy of the two apps. It can be seen that the scale is very similar.

3. Competitive Product Analysis

1. User analysis

(1) User gender ratio

Betta

Tiger Teeth

Data source: iResearch Index

Gender ratio is one of the important characteristics of a product, and the habits of male and female users are very different. From the above figure, we can find that the gender ratio of the two is very similar, with women accounting for less than one-third of the total. It is actually easy to understand why this situation occurs. Game live streaming is mainly based on games, and there are very few female game users.

In addition, another selling point of live streaming is appearance, which is more attractive to young men and has average appeal to women. In this way, the positioning of the platform has resulted in male users dominating the majority, with more than twice the number of female users .

(2) User age distribution

Betta

Tiger Teeth

Data source: iResearch Index

In terms of age distribution, the two are also very similar, with Douyu users being slightly older. But the difference is not that big, the age distribution structure of the two is similar.

The main force are all 25-30 year old newcomers in the workplace. Combining the graduation age of college students and the current marriage age, it can be found that people in this age group are actually very lonely. Most people have left campus at this age, but their families are not married or they have not been married for very long. The midlife crisis is still far away for them, and it is unrealistic for them to carry out an activity in groups like students. From this perspective, live streaming is indeed a carnival for a group of lonely people.

The second tier is 31-35 years old. Most people in this age group already have a family or even children. For many people, they have become the main source of income for their families. The fact that they have become the mainstream users of Douyu is most likely the result of economic development. People of this age group have basically already shaped their lives (most people are ordinary, and the elite class is just starting out at this age), and there is not much fun in life anymore, so it is understandable that they find fun in live broadcasts.

The third echelon is a younger user group, under 24 years old, who can be considered to be still in school. The enthusiasm of this group of people is not very high. This shows that live streaming products are not very attractive to college students. Compared with college students, the participation rate of people entering the workplace is much higher. Here I introduce the data of the mobile game Honkai Impact 3.

Data source: iResearch Index

The above is the user distribution of Honkai Impact 3. It can be found that the game players are obviously younger. The whole graph shows a stepped distribution. The younger the player, the more likely they are to play mobile games.

This situation is actually reasonable. We will find such a phenomenon in our lives that as we get older, the number of times we play games by ourselves will gradually decrease due to reduced continuous time and decreased energy. The entertainment of games will gradually evolve into watching others play and watching videos of them completing games.

This is closely related to time. As you get older, things will gradually become trivial, so it is difficult to spend a whole day playing games. In this case, the conditions for playing games are no longer met and one can only turn to other forms of entertainment. An important reason why live streaming has a limited share among young people is that there are too many competitors. Young people are attracted to all kinds of things, such as games, animation and so on.

(3) Geographical distribution

Betta

Tiger Teeth

Data source: iResearch Index

The first three in the geographical distribution of the two are the same. Although the order of the rest is different, they are almost the same overall.

Gender, age, and region (economic development level) are three very important user characteristics. Through the above analysis, we can find that Douyu and Huya products have almost the same user distribution. Therefore, the two have a strong competitive relationship. Since the users are the same, both companies will naturally try their best to attract more users for their products. Later we will analyze the differences between the two software.

(4) Usage scenario analysis

It is worth noting that both products are video-based. The sufficiency of traffic will have a great impact on user habits. If users do not solve the traffic problem, they can only use them with a wireless network. On the contrary, if there is no worry about traffic, all fragmented time can be utilized. Whether you are on the bus or subway, or waiting in line for a meal, you can take out your mobile phone and watch the live broadcast for a while.

The above picture shows the traffic solutions of two softwares, both of which are achieved by purchasing free traffic services. Douyu provides slightly more types of services, while Huya provides relatively fewer. Although Tencent King Card provides free traffic for all Tencent products, it is a bit expensive.

Live streaming products will occupy the user's eyes and ears at the same time when in use, and are not very suitable for outdoor use. This is a clear disadvantage compared to novel reading that only occupies the eyes and music apps that only occupies the ears. The main usage scenario of live broadcast products should be the utilization of fragmented time indoors, such as watching live broadcast for a while after dinner when there is nothing else to do, or watching live broadcast for a while before going to bed at night.

2. Architecture Analysis

2.1 Functional Architecture Diagram

(1) Douyu Live

The product structure diagram of Douyu Live is shown above. Generally speaking, one feature is that there are a lot of first-level labels. My, Scan , Search, History, and Messages all exist as first-level tags. This design is very rare, and the author personally does not like this setting very much. Too many first-level labels will lead to confusing hierarchy, high interface repetition, and not much more convenient to use.

(2) Huya Live

Compared with Douyu Live, Huya Live has a more reasonable hierarchical setting, with only 5 first-level labels. Its classification method is relatively conventional, with 5 separate labels at the bottom.

By comparing the two, it is not difficult to find that the core functions of the two software are similar, but the specific arrangements are very different. However, this has little impact on usage. What really determines whether users stay or leave is the content and the design of the live broadcast interface.

3. Product positioning analysis

There is not much difference between the two in this part. Live broadcast products are mainly designed to provide users with a channel to relax. As I get older, working in groups to do something has become a memory. Everyone’s time arrangements are different, unlike when we were in school when everyone’s time was relatively consistent and we could study and play together.

The live streaming platform can break the limitations of time and space, allowing users to connect with each other and watch a video together. Everyone can interact through barrage or speech area. The author also mentioned in a previous article that this is a great way to fight loneliness.

The advantage of live streaming is that you don’t feel lonely and can make use of fragmented time. Compared to playing games by yourself, live streaming can be started and ended at any time. Compared to sitting alone in front of a computer, this method obviously looks more lively. For related introductions, please refer to the article "Why are accurate reviews so popular in entertainment products? 》 and "How to use barrage to create an extraordinary viewing experience".

Carnival is the loneliness of a group of people. Live streaming can solve the problems of fast-paced life and inner emptiness of contemporary people, and it is bound to gain a certain market. And with the popularity of live streaming, people from all walks of life are also getting involved. The significance of live streaming has been expanded, and live streaming plus e-commerce is a very successful method, which not only solves the sales problem of e-commerce but also brings profits to the live streaming platform.

The positioning of both is the same, that is, to connect anchors and audiences through live broadcast platforms, break the geographical restrictions for them, and provide display or viewing services.

4. Product business model analysis

As both belong to the live streaming industry, their business models are similar. We can understand the business model of live streaming through a picture in the iResearch research report.

From this picture, we can see that the commercialization path of live streaming is actually quite clear, and the live streaming industry has passed the exploration stage. The live streaming industry now has a relatively stable profit model.

The scope of live streaming + is also very large, and its influence can almost reach all walks of life. Perhaps one day in the future, live streaming, like the Internet , will not be an industry, but an infrastructure, serving as a tool to support the development of all industries. However, there is still a long time before that day comes. After all, the development speed of Internet+ in China is very limited.

5. Product iteration analysis

Based on the most recent ten updates, the manufacturer's trends and ideas can be seen through the frequency and content of the updates. The speed of updating does not directly represent the quality of the product.

(1) Douyu Live

The last ten updates of Douyu are shown in the picture above, spanning from April 22 to July 5. It has been updated 10 times in less than two and a half months, which means an update once a week on average, which is quite fast.

Douyu’s updates are very aggressive in trying out new features, and almost all of them add two new words.

  • 4.000 added Douyu Alliance;
  • 4.100 added the appearance anchor function on the discovery page;
  • 4.200 added the function of voice live broadcast;
  • 4.300 added the function of voice connection;
  • 4.400 Added World Cup related content;
  • 4.500 adds the functions of making friends and anonymous chatting.

Almost every major revision will add new features. Of course, these revisions are also reflected in the size of the product. The installation package of Douyu APP is 79M, while the size of Huya Live is only 37M, less than half of Douyu Live. It is also worth noting that Douyu Live has received investment from Tencent many times. For example, in March 2018, Douyu TV received a new round of US$630 million in financing , which was exclusively invested by Tencent.

(2) Huya Live

The update frequency of Huya Live is much slower than that of Douyu Live. The 10 updates span from January 30 to July 4, a span of 5 months. The update frequency is only half of Douyu, that is, once every two weeks.

The update style is not as radical as Douyu. There are more optimization updates and fewer updates that add functions. Compared to Douyu, which has a lot of external investment, Huya’s composition is relatively simple. Huya is affiliated to YY, and of course Tencent has also invested in Huya.

The difference between the two products in this area is obvious. Douyu has a much greater demand for innovation, and its products are more complex and larger in size; while Huya is relatively stable, focusing on basic functions, and its version updates are slower than Douyu.

5. Page and function design

Almost everything mentioned above is the same, but very little is mentioned about the differences. This is determined by the characteristics of the competing products themselves. For two products to be competitors, they must have many things in common, otherwise they can hardly be called competitors.

In other words, for an open market, the more similar two products are, the stronger the competitive relationship between them. As various product models mature, the differences between different products will become smaller and smaller, because all manufacturers will design their products according to a fixed set of standards, which is bound to lead to fierce competition.

Douyu Live and Huya Live are similar in positioning, users, and business models, and the main difference lies in page and function design. Of course, content is also one of the differences. Next we will mainly mention the differences between these two products.

(1) Entrance settings

The two pictures on the left of the above page are screenshots of Douyu, and the two pictures on the right are screenshots of Huya. It can be found that if you switch the page to the discovery page in the Douyu APP, the search and other content at the top still exists. In Huya, as long as you switch to the homepage or pages other than entertainment, the search box will disappear.

The author also mentioned this point in the product structure diagram. In fact, in most products, the search box does not exist on each page. The advantage of this design is that you can search for the content you want at any time, but other than that, it is all disadvantages.

First of all, it takes up space on each page, which will reduce the space for displaying other content. In addition, this setting is not in line with mainstream design, resulting in a strong sense of disharmony.

Compared with Douyu, Huya’s design is more conventional. Of course, the designs of the two are also consistent with their product features. Douyu updates frequently and is relatively aggressive; Huya updates slowly, adds fewer features, and is relatively stable.

(2) Design of primary label

Both software have five entrances at the bottom. The picture above is Douyu and the picture below is Huya. After a simple comparison, we can find that the two are very similar. First of all, Douyu’s recommendations correspond to Huya’s homepage one by one, and their contents are similar. They both display their own popular content, and there is a classification function on the page that can give a good understanding of the content range of the product.

The second page is for entertainment. The functions on this page have little to do with electronic games. The labels at the top are 2D, Appearance, Outdoor, etc. There is no substantial difference between the contents of the two pictures above and below.

The third page is for subscription. Although the names of the two software are different, they mean the same thing. In the absence of a subscription, Douyu's page is blank, while Huya's page has recommended content. Huya’s design is slightly better here. After all, a blank page looks bad and makes people wonder whether it has not been loaded completely.

There is a big difference between the discovery page and my page. The content in the discovery page is different. My page is located at the top in Douyu, and is a first-level entrance at the bottom in Huya. The extra first-level entrance position of Douyu is given to the fish bar. There is no corresponding function in Huya as in Yuba. From this point of view, Douyu has one more first-level function than Huya.

(3) Douyu Fish Bar

Continuing with the second point, as mentioned above, Douyu has added such a feature. The author will analyze it and evaluate its impact on live streaming and speculate why Huya did not develop such a feature.

When we hear Yuba, the first thing that comes to mind is Baidu Tieba . In fact, the two are indeed very similar.

Yuba has three modules: Recommended, My, and Hotspot.

Mine are the content that I pay attention to, while recommendations and hot spots are the content provided by the system. When you click on a content in the recommendation and open it, you can find that it is displayed in the form of a topic plus comments.

The person who posts the update can add pictures and text, and others can reply. You can reply again to a reply, this mode is quite similar to Baidu Tieba . In a post, you can publish new content to become a moderator, and then everyone can reply to the moderator's comments.

In addition, you can also search for your favorite fish bar. As shown in Figure 6, the fish bars are classified according to characteristics, interests, and anchors. Users can follow the guidance to find content that interests them, such as following the League of Legends Fish Bar.

In short, Yuba can be considered as Douyu’s own Tieba, which provides users with a platform for communication.

The benefits of doing this are obvious. First, it brings users together. If there is no Yuba, users may choose other platforms to discuss, which would pose a potential risk of losing users for Douyu. It is obviously a beneficial and harmless practice to allow users to discuss the live broadcast here after watching it.

So why doesn’t Huya have this feature that seems to be very good? The author speculates that the reason may be one of the following.

  • Pseudo demand: Huya has relatively few functions and is developing steadily. The actual effect of this function may be very poor, and adding it will take up space, so Huya directly gave up the development of this function;
  • Cost considerations: Developing the function requires costs, and more costs are in maintaining the function, which needs to be monitored and audited at all times. If the advantages of adding functions cannot offset the costs, it is better not to do it;
  • Cannot do it: Due to technical or patent reasons, there is no way to complete this function for the time being;
  • I didn’t expect that: Huya product was very negligent. This is a very important point. It’s embarrassing that they didn’t see it directly.
  • Differentiation strategy: This is still possible. Huya is much smaller in size. For users who don’t like bloated products, the additional fish bar is a waste of time. On the contrary, the small and exquisite Huya is sticking to its original intention.

The most likely possibility among the above is the last one. Huya wants to be a streamlined live streaming APP that focuses on core content, while Douyu wants to be a comprehensive and gorgeous live streaming APP.

(4) Discovering module differences

The picture above shows a comparison of the two discovery pages. The one on the left is Huya, and the others are Douyu. It can be found that Huya is still relatively streamlined. Douyu basically has the same content as Huya, but Douyu has many more functions. For example, fleet, planet, check-in.

The design of the sign-in function has its pros and cons. The author has written an article on this topic before. You can jump to "How to make sign-in a powerful tool to improve user activity". Designing a sign-in function will naturally increase costs and increase user stickiness. The specific trade-off depends on the performance of both and the positioning of the product.

The planet function is a platform for strangers to make friends, and it has a tendency to develop into a social platform . It can be regarded as an extension of the live broadcast software, which includes a gameplay of gradually unlocking photos, which is quite novel.

From this part, we can find that Douyu pursues comprehensiveness while Huya pursues simplicity, and Huya basically does not implement non-core functions that can be saved.

(5) Live viewing function

A lot has been said above, but the most core function - live broadcast - has not been mentioned yet. As a live streaming software, the page that users visit most often is of course the live streaming room. Let’s take a look at the situation in the live broadcast room. The two pictures on the left are Douyu’s page, and the one on the right is Huya’s page. On the small window playback page, Douyu’s interface is very similar to Huya’s, even the labels are exactly the same.

Of course, I believe that many users will still choose to watch in full-screen mode. Douyu’s full-screen mode is very similar to Huya, but there are still functional differences.

For example, in terms of barrage blocking, Huya has a slightly richer function, with two levels, one is a simplified version and the other is turned off. But in Douyu, it is directly closed. However, there is a way to set up Douyu. You can change the display position of the barrage to the top, which can achieve similar results as Huya.

All in all, although there are differences in the layout and other aspects of the two, it seems more like a modification made to avoid being the same. The location of the settings has only been changed, but the effect that can be achieved is similar. It was mentioned earlier that Huya is relatively streamlined, but it did not do so on the live broadcast page, which shows that it has a clear grasp of the priorities. Know where the non-core needs are and where the core needs are.

(6) Search function

The author selected two hot spots, one is the e-sports hot spot PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds, and the other is the non-e-sports hot spot food.

The two pictures on the left are the search results of Douyu, and the two pictures on the right are the search results of Huya. From the results, we can find that there is actually not much difference between the two in terms of content richness. Both of them belong to the category where the number of results far exceeds the user demand, so the main competition should be the competition for the top market, which depends on who can get the contract of the popular anchor.

Well-known anchors of Douyu include Feng Timo and others, while well-known anchors of Huya include Miss and others. Just like the copyright war for video and music software, the live streaming platform is a war for anchors. Obtaining famous anchors should be the most effective way for a platform to acquire users.

Although there is no difference in the search content, Douyu is slightly better in terms of functionality. As you can see, you can choose the sorting method in Douyu search results, namely popularity, relevance and other different options. Huya does not have this feature. Huya only has a default sorting function and still adheres to its style of only focusing on core functions.

(7) User reviews

The comment sections of the two live streaming software are similar and the ratings are not high, at around 3.7 points. Most of the positive comments are from fans of a certain anchor, and the content is mostly in support of the anchor. The negative reviews always revolve around a few topics, such as no one cares if the host cheats, no one cares if the host has character issues, etc.

In short, it is caused by the inherent characteristics of the industry, and there are few evaluations on the design of this APP. From this point, we can also find that the quality of live broadcast software is basically determined by the content. Of course, the quality of the APP must also be up to standard, but it is difficult to determine the upper limit of the APP. The real competition is still the battle for anchors, and the battle against bad information, falsehoods, and cheating.

4. Suggestions for Improvement

From a product perspective, there isn't much to say. Live streaming software is already a relatively mature product. The settings of various functions have basically been finalized, and people’s usage habits have also been formed. Large-scale innovations may instead cause discomfort to users. Douyu and Huya are among the top-ranked live streaming software and are direct competitors. Basically, there will be a trend of one rising while the other falls.

If you want to make your platform more competitive, the best way is to invite more well-known anchors and poach the other side's anchors with large fan base. This may not necessarily be a good thing, but it is the most likely way to suppress your competitors.

Of course, you can also choose to give benefits to the anchors and users, and attract more users by spending money. It is worth it if you can defeat your opponent, which is similar to the battle between Meituan and Didi . Nowadays, most user-oriented products have no technical barriers. Except for products like WeChat , which has an astonishing number of users, the status of most products is not very stable.

The way to maintain and develop oneself is often not the product itself, but the war outside the product. For example, capital, grabbing anchors, public relations, policies, etc. Of course, the product is the prerequisite. If the product is not well made, everything is empty talk. The reason why products have little impact on winning nowadays is not because the products are bad, but because everyone can make good products.

Summarize

Huya and Douyu are both well-known live streaming platforms, and their content, positioning and other aspects are similar. The best way to distinguish them is through content and style. Content refers to the differences in the contracted anchors, while style refers to the different design ideas of the two software.

If a user does not know much about the anchor and does not have any anchor that he must watch, he can choose a platform based on his software usage habits. If the user likes large-scale software with full functions, he can choose Douyu. Douyu basically has all the functions that Huya has, and there is also a user communication area, Yuba. Although the space is more than twice as large, it actually doesn't have much impact considering the current hardware.

If the user is a hard-core party member, he or she will use the simplified software instead of the full version. Then you can choose Huya. Although Huya is streamlined, its core functions are complete. On the live broadcast page, its completeness is at the same level as Douyu and will not affect the user's viewing experience.

For the choice between the simplified and complete versions, please refer to the article "Taking Tieba and Toutiao as examples, why do products have express and standard versions?"

Although the two software are not in the relationship of a simplified version and a full version, from a design perspective, Huya is indeed more like a live streaming software without uncommon functions, while Douyu is the complete but somewhat bloated version.

Some people say that the reason why people don’t take vaccines seriously nowadays is because vaccines are so effective that people are unaware of the existence of those terrible diseases. There are similar sayings in the workplace, such as you only realize how important someone is after you leave.

This article is an analysis of product competition, and the final conclusion is that victory or defeat does not lie in the product itself. I also have a similar feeling. Nowadays, the product designs of major manufacturers are just so-so, which makes it difficult for product design to play a decisive role, but I believe this situation is not a bad thing.

Author: pm Ma Lu , authorized to publish by Qinggua Media .

Source: pmmalu

<<:  (How long can the short video industry last) Is there still a future for short videos?

>>:  How does operations perform data analysis? Share 5 basic steps!

Recommend

PPT skills for event planning with a million-dollar budget!

As long as you pay attention to the following poi...

From Pechoin to Momo, is soft advertising better or hard advertising?

From Pechoin to Momo, with the same budget and th...

Ranking principle and advantage analysis of Wancibaping promotion system

The concept of Wancibaping promotion: (WeChat: 18...

For B-side operations, you should master the thinking patterns and common sense!

1. Discussion The reason for writing this article...

Deep dive into the four major ways to grow educational apps

Online education has been a very hot field in rec...

Analysis of Tik Tok Media Advertising in Q4 2019

The short video industry still has great potentia...

What's the best gift for your girlfriend on 520?

May 20th is just two days away, and this day is v...

Case analysis: The confusion of an O2O product manager!

The theory is boring. After reading it, I just fe...

Case analysis: 4 key steps to establish a community operation system!

Running a live community is not an easy task, and...

Baidu Marketing 618 Delivery Guide and Plan

618 is coming and the battle is about to begin. H...

SEM promotion: How important is the idea? 80% of bidders die on this!

After reading this article, you can improve in th...

User Operation: How to create a To B user portrait?

Why do we need to create user portraits? How to c...

Does a mini program mall need to apply for a business license?

Can an e-commerce business license be used to ope...